To Abstain or Not to Abstain: That is the question.
Courtney Vance and Angela Basset
Married October 12, 1997
after being celibate for over a year.
after being celibate for over a year.
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| Copyright Chris Pizzelo/AP |
She thought I was "cheating" with him, but the truth is we had hung out a few times, initially, but when he found out I wasn't going to give up the goodies, we became friends. No big deal. (He's still one of my closest friends.). He felt like sex was an integral and necessary part of a casual dating relationship. I didn't. I respected his opinion and position, and he respected mine.
Back to the on again off again girlfriend. So she hit me up and the conversation turned to that of abstaining when she found out I wasn't sleeping with him. So she told me that she was sleeping with him, but really wanted to be celibate. But he would trip if she tried to withhold.
Now his position was, if she didn't want to do it, she should have never started. (now I do remember, we did talk about this...). Her position was if she wanted to be with him she had to start because he wouldn't be with her otherwise. But she was conflicted, which brought about a lot of conflict into their relationship.
That leads me to this. Any time you compromise who you are and what you want JUST to be with someone, it will cause problems. There is one thing to make changes because you want to, there is another to change because you feel forced to do so.
The reason I advocate being celibate or abstinent for a time is because often sex changes the dynamics of the relationship. Oftentimes women end up having the short end of the stick. You won't believe how many women, black, white, asian and of many other ethnicities, have talked to me about being hurt when a man won't commit AFTER she has given him the goodies.
It is one thing if you do it because that's what you want to do. It's another when you give in because you really believe what you won't do, another person will. You're already in a losing position. And if men won't be honest enough to tell you, I will. There are MANY (even the most sexually free) who lose respect for you when you have sex with them easily. Some won't. MANY will.
That's just the truth. They will tell you it's cool and you're wild, and you're just comfortable with your sexuality. However, if they never take the time to get to know you as a person, and the first thing they get is your goodies...they tend to not look at you for anything else.
This brings up the issues of CELIBACY and HOW MANY PARTNERS ARE TOO MANY. I lost a whole lot of followers this week because they did not like what I wrote about having too many partners and being "loose". That's cool. People typically don't like it when you appear judgmental.
My opinion about something you do, does not change my opinion of YOU as a person. That's what being grown is about. I accept and appreciate people for who they are no matter what they do. There are a number of things I do and say that people will never ever agree with. At the end of the day, we can agree to disagree. And if you're cool with what you do, my opinion shouldn't matter anyway. Trust me, if there is something I do, that you have a problem with, I could care less...just like the way I talk about any given subject LOL!
I'm real about every thing I say. I don't sugarcoat anything. My toes gets stepped on as much as I step on toes. So I'm going to show you all a conversation I had with a guy. He thinks sex is an integral part of a relationship and women should be more than willing to go there, because men are in the power position. Men have more options so women need to understand their weaker position...*side-eye*
CW: It's like which came first the chicken or the egg? Were men whorish first or were women whorish first? LOL
We seem to value stupid ish in our community these days. Most decent men will wait. If he can't wait, what's the point? Seriously. Are we that impulsive and animalistic? Are you driven by your ****? Especially when y'all hate being in child support court and at the doctor's office LOL. Waiting should be a priority!
JC: CM,
Having sex before marriage DOES NOT EQUAL to WHORE. Yes, people are sexual creatures.. it is in our DNA... we are "socialized" to supress that desire. Vaginas are a very abundant natural resource... no need to try and save using them like they are endangered species. Women (and men) should make intelligent decision about who they choose to sleep with.But as far as "abstinence" per se....not realistic in this day and age.
Men typically are more aggressive sexually. Men seek sex. Any man of means and options.. can choose from several women. Why would he "choose" a woman FOR EXCLUSIVITY that was unwilling to meet his needs??? Thats the real world
CW: Hey. It's all about how you look at it. You don't consider it that way. I do. Part of different upbringings/morals/values.
Since there are several vaginas out there, why should I care whether or not you go get one if that's your focus? Go ...get it. That just means you're not the dude for me.
Dudes wait when they respect and want that woman. Just because you won't doesn't mean, there isn't a man who will. People value different things.
You value bustin' one...another dude may value having a good woman.
And if I had to choose between the two, I always choose the second guy. Because we share the same values.
People got the game twisted. I could give two flying rats butts what the next chick is doing. Too many women get caught up in that foolishness "If I don't do it, the next chick will" Well let her... and she'll either be happy or miserable. You don't have to compromise your values just to have someone.
JC: CM, that is the Fallacy of your argument. NOT HAVING SEX does not EQUATE good woman. I know plenty of HIGH CALIBER women that are "comfortable" with their sexuality.
If a woman has certain beliefs and morals. I'm all for it. Everyone (male/f...emale) should stick to their beliefs.
But let me give you the analogy. If I date a woman and she says that she is a VEGETARIAN and that has to do with her belief system. COOL. But just because SHE is VEGETARIAN does not mean that she should expect a MAN to become a VEGETARIAN when the majority of men eat meat. Just because a MAN eats meat doesn't meant that he is any less quality of a man than one who is a VEGETARIAN. Doesn't mean that the woman is any better than any other woman just because she decides to abstain from meat (no pun intended).
+Add. That most men are not going to be EXCLUSIVE with a woman that they are not having sex with. A man is not going to be exclusive with a woman that is not meeting all of his needs sexual or otherwise.See More
CW: Where did I make that argument that it does? I didn't. LOL. And you crack me up with the meme about being "comfortable with your sexuality" as proven by sleeping with someone. So if someone doesn't sleep with you it means she isn't comfortable with hers? Boy bye! LOL
Further, just because "MOST" men wouldn't be exclusive, doesn't mean she should change up her morals to please "MOST" men. She just needs that one who will be exclusive. Too often people and their own selfish desires mess up other people. I know women who give it up like it is going out of style and the man still won't commit. lol Actually, I know too many women who do that, and they hurt tremendously because of it. I haven't met too many women crying about having a man who won't commit because she didn't give him the goodies.
JC: You might need to reread what you wrote:
"You value bustin' one...another dude may value having a good woman.
And if I had to choose between the two, I always choose the second guy. Because we share the same values. "
You phrased the statment ...as man can either A) Like having sex "Bustin one". or B) Value having a good woman.
This implies that a woman that likes to have sex with said guy, is not a good woman.
Yes, a woman that is sexually active and responsible with her actions to such. Obviously is probably more comfortable with the act.... than a woman who has issues with engaging in the activity. Why are you trying to debate that?
CW: Where do you get the "has issues" part from? Maybe she values having a healthy committed relationship and a spiritual one at that? You're reading negativity into a person's personal choice that has nothing to do with you.
The point about the good woman vs busting one had nothing to do with another woman who would have sex with you. It had to do with a man choosing to leave a woman who wouldn't have sex even though she is a good woman. Thus she should look for a man who values having a good woman over busting one.
You're adding more to my statements, than what I meant or said LOL
JC: I have stated several times that a woman that olds abstaining near and dear, shouldn't change that.
I'm just saying she is going to be lonely. that is all.
Abstinence does not guarantee that a man will be faithful. Just as "giving it up" does not guarantee anything either.
Each person should do what they feel is comfortable. Don't make a man or woman a villian just because they choose to be sexually active.See More
CW: LOL...where do you get that idea from? That she'll be lonely? I guess becaues most of the guys you know hold fast to your same beliefs? That would make sense.
I didn't make anyone a villain. I just said who was whorish first, men or women. LOL
You said that a woman who abstains is wrong for not giving the man what he needs. Doesn't that sound more villainous?
JC: NO I never said that the woman was WRONG. I have said several times that you should hold on to whatever you strongly believe. But just think are you prepared for the real world ramifications for holding on to those beliefs... whatever they ...may be.
I know a couple that had sex on the first date. They have been married for 3 years. Conversly I know a couple that waited for close to 9 months. They got divorced after a little over 1 year of marriage.
What I'm saying is that SEX is not the "X" factor in determining a man or woman's intentions ... or an true indication of what either person desires out of a relationship.
CW: I know three or more couples who abstained. 1 couple has been married for 10+ years. Another couple waited 4 years and have been married for 2 years. Another couple waited for 2 years and have been married a year.
I think what we place the most value on is what will either destroy or build a relationship. All too often we place the most value on the wrong things.
We all make sacrifices in some areas to get what we need/want the most. Holding off on having sex for a time is not going to kill you. People make it seem like it will. Which is part of the reason we have so many random births and diseases.
I work with child support...so that's the angle I'm coming from for the most part. Too many people hop into bed before they establish any type of bond with the person. Or their whole relationship gets built on sex. Men don't often see or hear how a lot of women feel about sex being the most important part of the relationship or having that "if I don't do it, the next one will" mentality. For a lot of women (even the "sexually free" ones) it hurts. They just don't tell you.
JC: Indeed. We all make sacrifices to get what we need/want. I think that is the truest thing you wrote.
But any man of resources/desireabiltiy has OPTIONS. So he gets to be a little choosier about what he wants, and can demand a woman that fufills his needs.
Same thing with a woman. IF she is in good physical shape, takes good care of her body/dresses appropriately for the occasion/embraces womanly duties/and acts feminine at all times/respects man as head of household. Then she too can be a little pickier.
But most women, and especially black women are not willing to do what is necessary to attract that "very desireable male" that every other woman wants.
CW: That's the line men use to get women to do what they want. "He gets to be choosier". Fine. Choose someone then. I don't know what makes men think that because you can be "choosier" that it should somehow affect what women do. Not everyone is desperate.
What makes a man "very desirable" exactly? His means? Eh...not to me. I've dated men with means. They are similar to ones without means. All good men. I might add :) lol I can't speak for all black women. But resumes don't cut it all the time.
People like who they like and they are ready for what they are ready for. You have to decide what is best for you and when it is best for you.
JC: Its a fact of life. Men do choose. In this society men approach the women. Hence, men choose the pool of woman that they deal with. A man can go to the mall and decide that he wants to only approach women with white shoes on. If that is his... preference.
Women, for the "most part" have to choose from the advances that are made to them... from a wide variety of men.
Women choose who they decide to have sex with, But men choose which women gets to be their wife. Big difference.
What "some" women would help them to learn.. is "How to get the type of guy they want to choose them".
In my last post I detailed what men are broadly looking for...that is what would be CHOSEN as a long term mate by man 1st.
CW: LOL. Well either you stick with "society" or you do what's best for you. You can't rest on "traditions" "societal norms" or "culture". We were born into society, but we were born individually. If you wait on those things to make something... happen for you, nothing will ever happen.
What often happens is men think they are choosing a particular woman and then find out later she chose him and he fell for the okey doke.
How many times have you heard a man say "SHE CHANGED AFTER WE GOT MARRIED"? lol. She didn't change, she just fooled you.
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